Enter Neocon Stage Right - Exit Neocon Stage Right

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Haltman’s home feed on Oct. 5, 2009 - hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler czar czar czar czar czar

In February of 2009, only a short time after the new president was elected, a vibrant FriendFeed group “US Politics” was joined by a certain Michael Haltman.

N.B. Allegations of his being a neo-con were never proven, or acknowledged by him. Nor did he deny being a  neo-con, or disagree with any neo-con policy.

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Well Mr. President, you are not in Kansas anymore.

Well Mr. President, you are not in Kansas anymore. At what point in time will your apologists run out of the excuse that it’s only been 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks and now 5 weeks. You came into office with very big plans facing even bigger problems. You gave yourself and the Congress a very aggressive and artificial timeline of what you… 

February 25, 2009 

This is mostly cant, snark and envy. How bout some real ideas? - Rick Powell

Rick, it’s not for us to explain to them that they need to “take their party back,” or even start with “I’m a fiscal conservative, even though the Republican party was sold out to religious fundamentalists.” Stick around for this circus side-show, it’s going to be entertaining! Tax cuts are the answer to eight years of failed Bush policies, don’t forget :) - Richard Walker

Yeah, the mind boggles. I find it hard to understand how a fiscal conservative could be a mainstream Republican. But credibility doesn’t seem to be something that the GOP worries about much. See: Jindal’s response to the SOTU. - Rick Powell

Neoconservative Michael Haltman is not defending any of his controversial posts on Friendfeed. Most annoying. Very neoconish. - Sean McBride

Are the GOP trying to become non-existant by becoming non-relevant. Is that their plan? - MV3B Incorrigible of FF

Oh great, another neocon with a “megaphone.” And he didn’t even find Conservative Oasis. What a dolt. - Richard Walker

I wouldn’t call myself a neocon although leave it to liberals to use name calling as their sole defense. I guess what I am looking for from our new change agent in chief are some ideas and solutions to the problems that we face. It is not my job to come up with them. That is why he picked the people that he did, although I am sure that he wishes he could have a do over. - Michael Haltman

One change you will see in the near future; corporations will be paying more unemployment tax ( and that’s a good thing ) to support the Federal Extensions to benefits. The San Francisco Chronicle is a company worth watching. The may lay-off 200+ employees to correct a $50+million deficit. Those reporters and staff must make a lot of money! Perhaps the tax will be an incentive to stay in business…. - Wallace

It speaks! Silence, you puny serfs! - Richard Walker

How hilarious, that he deigns to speak only to say we’re “name calling.” Fine, you Ayn Randian, Straussian Free Market Ideologue & American Exceptionalist. - Richard Walker

Michael — where do you differ from the neocons? On what specific policies? - Sean McBride

“some ideas and solutions to the problems that we face”, what, solutions like an economic stimulus and banking reform? - Andrew C

Wallace - Man, I love your solution, a tax to prevent layoffs, sounds like an effort to put them out of Business! Although, I probably wouldn’t mind that much, just another lefty propaganda machine. - Brian

Wow Brian, you don’t get out much if you write off the Chron as a “lefty propaganda machine.” I guess the Bay Guardian falls of the end, wraps around, and becomes a “right-wing rag.” I can see you are completely uninterested in even attempting accuracy or objectivity. What’s it like, living in a black & white world? - Richard Walker

We are still waiting on the long-suffering Haltman to define his politics lest we insult him again with terms like “neocon.” In the meanwhile, here’s the wiki page for Leo Strauss:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki… - Richard Walker

Michael Haltman, again: your beliefs and policies differ from those of neoconservatives how? - Sean McBride

No response so far from Michael Haltman. - Sean McBride

I would suggest that Sean and Richard might want to consider getting some kind of life. Michael is to neocon as Obama is to socialist/communist. Oops. Bad comaprison. Your President Obama came out with some budget today. He is losing his abilty to pin the blame on Bush for that crap. The troika of Obama, Pelosi and Reid will lead us down the road to nowhere. - Michael Haltman

Michael — on what specific issues and policies do you differ from the neocons? - Sean McBride

“Michael is to neocon as Obama is to socialist/communist. Oops. Bad comaprison. ” This is comedy gold. - Andrew C

Let me help Michael Haltman: #profile[neoconservatives; AIPAC+ Benjamin Netanyahu+ Bush 43+ Dick Cheney+ due process- Global War on Terror+ habeas corpus- Iran War+ Iraq War+ Islamophobia+ Likud+ Mideast peace process- Military Commissions Act+ torture+ U.S. Bill of Rights- U.S. Constitution- unitary executive+ warrantless wiretaps+ West Bank settlements+ World War IV+] Where does Michael differ? - Sean McBride

One the one hand, it’s good that people such as Haltman aren’t too ashamed to spew forth their immovable worldview. On the other, it’s quite terrible that there isn’t a coherent opposition party ideology. I’m truly distressed that the God Only Party is so unprepared for life after POTUS 43. -Richard Walker

“God Only Party” — I think that’s my new favorite re-purposing of an acronym! Thanks! - Phil G

Ha! Most welcome, Phil :) - Richard Walker

Michael Haltman: you started this thread. Any chance that you will participate in it? - Sean McBride

He sorry guys. Been busy. It seems as if Phil, Sean, Richard, Andrew and others are all very happy with the start that Obama has had which I think is great. There will however come a time when the Koolaid will wear off, the neo-con crap will become less fun to talk about, your bank accounts will continue to diminish, the stock market will continue to drop, the government will continue to nationalize our industry’s, our enemies will begin to test our resolve for real and so on, and you will realize that this most liberal of all Senators who had very little experience, who is being led by the nose by the biggest liberal of them all Nancy Pelosi is a not ready for prime time player who gives great speech but who is not ready for the task at hand. You guys stay safe in your little chat room with other like minded people, secure in the fact that your ideas are all the same. You each have each other intellectual back using words like neo-con when in reality you guys have no idea of what the big bad world is. - Michael Haltman

Must have run out of room. In any case I will continue to hang out here, giving all you tough writing guys the opportunity to fall all over each other agreeing with everything the other one says. Stay strong guys and keep fighting each others good fight. - Michael Haltman

One last question: at what point in days and months does the intellectual power that is this group face the prospect of saying the words that the problems and solutions are owned by Obama, or is the plan to give him a pass for his term in office saying that everything he does is merely in response to the failed policies of the last 8 years. Come on guys, your president is a grown man, who knew the challenges, who said he had the solutions, who said he was bringing change (who knew the that change was a euphemism for mor of the same). Isn’t it just like a Democrat (particularly those complicit in the current problems who seem to forget their ownership) to attempt to get a pass by blaming everyhting on everyone else. - Michael Haltman

I think the idea that Obama is the problem with the economy is a losing argument. The only people who believe the Democrats are responsible for the CURRENT state of the economy are people so far to the right they view everyone but themselves as socialists. There are two reasons the market is reacting this way to Obama. 1) The Republicans left the economy in such shambles the only potential source for good news is the Government. 2) The market doesn’t like Change and Obama is changing things. But these two reasons don’t change the fact that Obama is left to clean up the mess Bush and the right wing created. - Andrew

@Andrew so no one has had a thought that a return to the Johnson Administration policies will bring the same economic woes of the mid 70’s? Interesting… - MV3B Incorrigible of FF

Another small point, The Republicans aren’t fiscal conservatives. They believe in cutting taxes in all situations but don’t have the balls to cut Government too. So you are left with a group that creates debt and thus problems. The Democrats, not the ideal fiscal conservatives but at least a party that is conscious of reality, are consistently left with the position of cleaning up the debt the flawed Republican governing principals creates. Republicans would do themselves a huge favor by creating an actual set of pragmatic principals that function in reality. Until they do this cycle we just lived through and have lived through in the past will continue. - Andrew

@Mark - Johnson’s policies don’t have anything to do with what I just said. Did Johnson deal with a stock market completely starved of good news from the private sector as a result of a flawed dogma based on deregulation at all costs? If so, then please continue your comparison and enlighten men. -Andrew

I could also use the massive increase of the available workforce in 1945, or even the financial deregulation in the mid 90’s, Andrew. All of these events impact the US economy as it is today. To blame one pathetic group of liars (GOP) or another (DNC) is short-sighted. That is my point. If any, one group is to blame, it is the American voter, for continuing to allow these morons to continue their public service. - MV3B Incorrigible of FF

@Mark - Another point, Lyndon Johnson passed a 10% tax increase when the top tax bracket was around 60-70%. Obama has a 3-5 percent tax increase when the top tax rate is 33-35%. I don’t think these are very comparable either in scale or economic impact. We’ve seen business thrive at the rates Obama is proposing. No business could thrive under Johnson’s rates. - Andrew

@Mark - Yeah, but you are still missing the point I was making in my first post. The stock market isn’t reacting to Obama because of his policies, they are reacting to him because they have nothing else to react to.It’s a flawed metric. But the Republicans still have a flawed ideology based on national debt in all times, not just the bad times. Which was my second point. - Andrew

Let’s say that your first post is correct; the stock market goes down, which isn’t a reaction to Obama because of his policies. If the reverse had occurred and market had gone up, would you also argue the same or would you say the market went up because of Obama’s economic announcements? As to your second point I respectfully submit that neither, major political party in the US has a clue, including economically. - MV3B Incorrigible of FF

Mark - The only news from Obama that could cause the markets to rise is that he is buying every bit of bad debt off the Banks. That would solve a large portion of the problems in the private sector. So if he did that, I would give him credit. In any other scenario, I would be selling the rally because it would be short lived. - Andrew

Mark - On your second point, I agree almost wholeheartedly. Neither side has any idea about spending or economic policy. But the Dems do one thing better, in my opinion: they pay for what they spend. I would love to see government cut by about 10-20%, but since we aren’t doing that, we should at least pay for it. Which gives them more credibility in my book. - Andrew

Fair enough. Then would you agree that Bill Clinton was correct when he publicly advised Obama to be more positive? Sort of ‘sugarcoating the turd,’ if you will? - MV3B Incorrigible of FF

I’m torn on that. Half of me believes that without a perceived crisis Congress is going to act like a mass of argueing nitwits and nothing will be done. On the other hand the US needs some optimism. People seem scared to shop which is hurting everyone. I guess we need to call it a turd and then add sugar? In my opinion at least. - Andrew

As a “direct commercial mortgage lender, broker and trainer”, Mr. Haltman, your politics are no doubt intertwined with your commercial interests. At the very least, you seem to be using FriendFeed to push your blog, and using your blog to push your commercial interests. Consider this a disclaimer on your behalf. - Richard Walker

@Andrew then I will agree with your first point. - MV3B Incorrigible of FF

And another thing, there are plenty of conservatives here, some of whom I follow and regularly engage with. You seem quite different though, and once this thread dies I doubt we’ll cross paths again. -Richard Walker

I didn’t see any references to specific issues or policies in Michael Haltman’s latest posts. Nothing much to discuss here. He doesn’t seem interested in distancing himself from any of the particular neoconservative positions I mentioned. I think he shares those positions. - Sean McBride

Sean McBride, I think you just like to hear yourself talk. I think that you are one of those narrow minded liberals that like to hear himself write because it gives him power, although Sean McBride doesn’t really say anything. Richard Walker, I do not need to promote my blog or my business, but in these groups that purport to be “political discussion groups” which are in reality liberal hunting grounds, an alternative voice needs to be provided. As for our paths not crossing again, I think that I will just have to deal with it and wonder where it is that our relationship went so terribly wrong. In reality you don’t really read what I write, only the parts that you want to. I am critical of the Bush administration where required, both parties of congress where required and of course Clinton. Open your brain as well as your mouth sometimes, and you might actually learn something. I guess this is where I have to say have a great life. - Michael Haltman

Michael Haltman — I am more a libertarian than a liberal. You still haven’t mentioned any issues or policies on which you differ from neoconservatives. Can you name any now? Which Bush administration policies did you oppose? - Sean McBride

Alas, his presence there was not a long-term commitment. At least he announced his departure in March publicly! 

I will no longer be posting my blog directly in groups

I will no longer be posting my blog directly in groups, but would love to have anyone interested continue to read, participate and definitely comment. Please visit The Political and Financial Markets Commentator at http://politicsandfinance.blogspot.com and sign-up for free daily delivery of the blog by either email or feed. The sign-up are in the…

March 7, 2009 

Forgive me if I spend more time reading Andrew Sullivan, Glenn Greenwald, Juan Cole, Stephen Walt, Robert Dreyfuss, James Wolcott and other writers in their class. Life is short and attention is brief. You never managed to mention a single issue on which you disagree with standard neoconservative dogma. - Sean McBride

Sean: i don’t even bother with Andrew - way too much noise. Some one show him Twitter please. -Roberto Bonini

Roberto — I am picking off Andrew’s best posts from Twitter, where he has 1,830 followers:http://twitter.com/dailydish It’s also easy to scan the headers of his posts with Google Reader. He’s a prolific writer; one has to be selective in dipping into his stream. - Sean McBride

Yes, quite. :) - Roberto Bonini

Like for comments. - Russellreno

Also liking for comments, not for the way Haltman behaved in this room :) - Richard Walker

The style reminded me a great deal of right-wing talk radio: all bluster and ungrounded assertions, no real give and take, no informed interaction. None of these “conservatives” know how to debate or defend their positions. Few of them have managed to stand their ground on Friendfeed. - Sean McBride

I tell you what ladies. Sign-up at my blog and leave all of the comments that you want and get all of the responses that you want. The problem is you would have to leave the comfort of being around all of your buddies and out in the world which I doubt you would do. http://politicsandfinance.blogspot.com -Michael Haltman

*laugh* - Andrew C

No comment. - Sean McBride

lol - Cee Bee

I think he may have been shamed him into departing. He was flagrantly misusing the group to push his political agenda, and his private business interests which - surprise, surprise - benefit from the sort of gross negligence we’ve seen recently at the highest levels in the financial sector.

I don’t usually see such neo-cons in the wild, so this was an interesting surprise encounter that I thought should be noted for the record.